Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history

Please add requests for MILHIST participation to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Requests for project input. This includes requests for comment, requested moves, articles for deletion, and more.

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Summary of Military history WikiProject open tasks watch · edit · full list News and announcements The 2024 coordinator election has begun with voting open until 29 September. The September newsletter is now available. Editors are advised that Featured Articles promoted before 2016 are in need of review, if you had an article promoted to Featured status on or before 2016 please check and update your article before they are listed at FAR/C. Current discussions No major discussions are open at the moment Featured article candidates Battle of Saipan • German atrocities committed against Soviet prisoners of war • The Motherland Calls • Battle of Lake Providence • Jochi • Yugoslav torpedo boat T6 • Robert Poore • Chagatai Khan • Jimmy Carter Featured article review Byzantine Empire • Edward I of England • Northrop YF-23 • Middle Ages • Thomas C. Hindman • Isaac Brock • Pre-dreadnought battleship Featured picture candidates Thorsten Nordenfelt A-Class review Henry Biard • Miyoshi Nagayoshi • Ernest J. King • Lockheed YF-22 • SPARS • USS Texas (BB-35) Peer reviews Henry Clay Work • Charles the Bold • 1939 Liechtenstein putsch • Sher Shah Suri • Rwandan genocide • Battle of Sark Good article nominees Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma • 1864 Washington Arsenal explosion • Felek al-Din Dündar • Roswell incident • Mohammad Shah Qajar • Gubir shootdown • Eleanor of Castile • Northrop B-2 Spirit • Battle of Ekiokpagha • Simon Stuart (general) • 170th Rifle Division (Soviet Union) • Dabney Coleman • Benin Air Force • Battle of Mosul (2016–2017) • Crusading movement • Battle of Thorgo • Jarrett Robertson • Tel al-Sultan attack • Charles Keating IV • Sack of Delhi (1757) • Black and Tans • Diaspora Revolt • Castlereagh–Canning duel • Ottoman minelayer Intibah • Ottoman destroyer Yarhisar • Piri Reis • Eunus • Patrick J. Ryan (chaplain) • George Preece • Francis L. Sampson • HMS Regulus (1785) • Spanish Christian–Muslim War of 1172–1212 • Italian Campaign of 1796–1797 • Pandour Corps • Central Powers Good article reassessments Battle of Plataea • Siege of Szigetvár • Mehmed II's Albanian campaign • Manley Power • USS Texas (BB-35) • George W. Bush Articles that need... work on referencing and citation (148,557) • only work on referencing and citation (43,244) • work on coverage and accuracy (123,890) • only work on coverage and accuracy (19,908) • work on structure (31,876) • only work on structure (361) • work on grammar (8,172) • only work on grammar (46) • work on supporting materials (32,943) • only work on supporting materials (1,337) • assessment (5) • assessment as lists (7) • project tags fixed (2) • assessment checklists added (0) • assessment checklists completed (3) • task forces added (1) • attention to task force coverage (655)

Requests for project input

Talk:1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight RfC

There's a discussion at Talk:1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight#RfC_–_In_the_article_section_about_"Haifa",_should_the_following_paragraph_be_added? about whether specific prose attributed to Benny Morris should be added to 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight. Editors are invited to participate. TarnishedPath^talk 07:18, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

FAC in need of attention

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Battle of Lake Providence/archive1 could use attention from interested reviewers. Hog Farm _Talk 00:13, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Seeking opinions

Please have a look at my proposal here: Talk:List of World War II flying aces#Merge of two lists. Thanks MisterBee1966 (talk) 12:04, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Vilyeyka#Requested move 3 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Vilyeyka#Requested move 3 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 01:27, 19 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson#Requested move 5 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Horatio Nelson, 1st Viscount Nelson#Requested move 5 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. reading beans 01:21, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for Manley Power

Manley Power has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 18:41, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for George W. Bush

George W. Bush has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Z1720 (talk) 18:06, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Good article reassessment for USS Texas (BB-35)

USS Texas (BB-35) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:40, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Battle of Nicosia Airport

An editor created this article from Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus#23 July 1974. I can't find any reference to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" in any sources but I thought I would bring it here for review. Aszx5000 (talk) 13:38, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I agree that there seems to be not one mention of that battle in any book listed on Google Books, which raises some notability concerns. If those can be surmounted, I'd suggest at least starting a requested move to a descriptive name, perhaps following the guidance at WP:NOYEAR. I also noticed that this seems to be an article on Simple English as well (simple:Battle of Nicosia Airport). Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 21:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

I redirected it back to Military operations during the Turkish invasion of Cyprus#23 July 1974, where this incident is covered, but the creator reverted it. I told them that I could find not reference to a "Battle of Nicosia Airport" anywhere and that he was straying to OR territory but hey were not for turning. Helpful that you found the same outcome. Aszx5000 (talk) 09:52, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I left a comment over at Talk:Battle of Nicosia Airport, tagged a few unreliable sources, and added the correct attribution templates because it turns out that a chunk of this article was copied from Simple English Wikipedia. The input of anyone else in the project would be welcomed, especially if you can show that the topic is notable. Ed ^{[talk] [OMT]} 17:09, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Somali Armed Forces

Dear Milhist editors, MajidApdalla has consistently been trying to insert material not supported by reliable facts at Somali Armed Forces and Somali Air Force. I have been trying to remove his rather unsupported claims of "26 active aircraft in the Somali Air Force" etc and replace them with cited WP:RELIABLE sources but he has continued to remove my text. Please feel free to review my edits and make any amendments you wish.

I would also like to draw editors' attention to the edit records at these two articles and the warnings I have placed on this editor's talkpage. Buckshot06 (talk) 04:22, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

I added the following after your recent talk page comment on Somali Armed Forces and as a Recent Information section on the talk page of Somali Air Force, FWIW: :As information: From https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/somalia/#military-and-security The World Factbook Page last updated: September 24, 2024 "Military and security forces: Somali National Armed Forces (SNAF; aka Somali National Defense Force): Land Forces (Somali National Army or SNA), Somali Navy, Somali Air Force; Ministry of Internal Security: Somali National Police (SNP, includes Coast Guard and a commando unit known as Harmacad or Cheetah); National Security and Intelligence Agency (includes a commando/counterterrorism unit) (2024); note 1: the Somali Navy and Air Force have only a few hundred personnel, little equipment, and are not operational; in early 2024, Somalia signed an agreement with Turkey to build, train and equip the Somali Navy. Donner60 (talk) 05:01, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Zhou-class SSN, calling our submarine experts

The lead boat of a new class of Chinese PLAN SSN, with one of the X-shaped (rudders?) astern, sank in dock last year, the papers are reporting. We have nothing more than a redirect to Category:Nuclear submarines of the Chinese Navy however. Could I ask the editors who often write submarine articles, even if they focus on RN and USN, to put their heads together and create a short stub? Would be very helpful. An obvious workspace would be Talk:People's Liberation Army Navy Submarine Force. Buckshot06 (talk) 11:07, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

I've started Draft:Zhou-class submarine, but I'm not 100% confident that at this stage it's detailed enough to go into mainspace. Some basic specs or goals of the programme would help, but I've not been able to find any info on that. Too bad my latest copy of Janes Fighting Ships is only from 2010. Loafiewa (talk) 16:57, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Great start!! I've made some additions and copied in H I Sutton's page. Buckshot06 (talk) 20:17, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Infobox of the Dutch–Portuguese War

Can somebody check in on the discussion on the infobox of the Dutch-Portuguese War? There has been a lot of editing on it recently by editors who argue that the infobox should also display the territories Portugal retained, while I argue for the layout current infobox. DavidDijkgraaf (talk) 16:58, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

USS Texas (BB-35) A-Class reappraisal

Reposted from coordinator talk page for greater coverage. Donner60 (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Just like the Texas herself, I believe that it's time to bring this neglected 15 year-old A-class article to dry dock for repairs. There are several issues (article version):

• A1: The citation style is inconsistent. There are refs (including some bare URLs) mixed in with {{sfn}}s. Some claims are cited to irreputable sources, such as YouTube videos (e.g., ref 71) and primary sources (see all 18 references tagged with {{third-party inline}} as of Sept. 2012). There's also a valid {{failed verification}} tag from Nov. 2012 and three valid citation needed tags (oldest Jan. 2023). Additionally, all but one of the nine footnotes (ref group A) lack inline citations.
• A2: The article goes into unnecessary detail in that it relies on primary sources. It also lacks relevant detail in that the 2022 dry docking section hasn't been updated since April 2024. Additionally, given the sourcing issues, the article may not be factually accurate.
• A3: The service history section is well-organized, but the museum section has several sub-sections with three short paragraphs mixed in with much longer sub-sections. Both could also use years in parentheticals in the subheadings.

I will be bringing these concerns to GA reassessment as well. Best, voorts (talk/contributions) 01:23, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

I've nominated this for GAR as well: USS Texas (BB-35) (nom). voorts (talk/contributions) 01:50, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Donner60 (talk) 01:10, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:2024 Haret Hreik airstrike#Requested move 21 September 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:2024 Haret Hreik airstrike#Requested move 21 September 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. Reading Beans 06:20, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Capitalization of "tab" and "badge"

Having stumbled upon Tabs of the United States Army (and learning that these insignia are even called tabs), I noticed with some annoyance that the word "tab" was inconsistently capitalized in that article, sometimes as "tab" sometimes as "Tab". I was pretty confident that, when talking about tabs in general, we should use lower case. It's in no case a proper noun then. The problem was in usages like "Airborne Tab" or "Special Forces Tab", as if that's a proper noun as an official title of the thing. I looked at the main US Army source promininently used in that article, AR 670-1, and this Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia document does not use caps for the word tab, even when referring to "the airborne tab".

Badges are trickier, apparently, because the capitalization in AR 670-1 varies. Section 21, for example, leaves "badge" lowercase, as in:

• "...who have been awarded the combat infantryman badge, the expert infantryman badge", top of p.49 (PDF-page 57) or
• "...have been awarded the corresponding Parachutist or Air Assault badge", lower down on that same page.

Section 22, meanwhile, seems to cap more eagerly, as in

• "...affixed to the Parachutist Badge and the Military Free Fall Parachutist Badge", p.52 (PDF-p.60)
• "...or Naval Qualification Badges such as the Naval aviation warfare specialist" p.54 (PDF-p.62)

That section also caps "Presidential Medal of Freedom" and "Medal of Honor", with which I take no issue, but also capitalizes "Soldiers", as in "next of kin of Soldiers who lost their lives", e.g. at the top of p.51 (PDF-p.59). The 2nd page of the PDF also uses "...authorizes female Soldiers who are...", which I see as just wrong.

But based on this (shaky?) evidence in AR 670-1, and encouraged by the fact that Ranger tab already had a lowercase title and that other sources I quickly surveyed tended to not cap, I went about standardizing on lower-case usage, not only within Tabs of the United States Army, but with the titles and content of our other tab articles. Ranger tab, for example, had mixed-use (mostly "Tab"); other articles (Ranger Challenge Tab and President's Hundred Tab), were all "Tab".

I tried "fixing" the last article, after moving (with redirects) what I could, but Special Forces tab already exists as a redirect to Special Forces Tab. My "bold clean-up" is now stalled at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Technical requests#Contested technical requests. My question (finally!! is, what style policy is appropriate for article names and references to this kind of insignia?

I've found a fairly recent move discussion at Talk:Ranger tab#Requested move 10 February 2024, with arguments in favor of "Ranger tab". However, the wide use of "Tab" (even months later on that article) makes me wonder what consistent usage we want. Thanks for your time and any input you can give. — JohnFromPinckney (talk / edits) 11:16, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

My impression, from looking at a variety of sources, is that tab is not generally considered to be part of a proper name, but badge often is. For example, that parachutist badge is capped in almost all books (but not in Army Officer's Guide). Go figure. And qualification badges would of course be lowercase, though a minority of books cap it. Specific qualification badges can be capped. Dicklyon (talk) 19:27, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

The most appropriate guideline is generally the lead at MOS:CAPS, which relies on studying sources, even if that doesn't make it all easy or totally consistent. Dicklyon (talk) 19:37, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

I have a few sources about shoulder sleeve insignia or patches. When tab is used in a sentence, unconnected to a specific tab, it is not capitalized. However, I found nothing in any of them about capitalization of a specific tab, such as Ranger Tab. The tabs themselves are in all caps. That is the way the sources that I have show them in sentences or captions. That is not helpful for Wikipedia title captions, of course. Donner60 (talk) 00:07, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

Source request

Hello all. Just wondering if anyone owns, or might be able to access, a copy of Breaker Morant: The Final Roundup (ISBN: 9781445659657). If so, if would help expand a FA candidate. Cheers in advance. AA (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024

There is a requested move discussion at Talk:Israel–Hamas war#Requested move 13 August 2024 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. --MikutoH ^talk! 22:06, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

Requested move at Talk:Siege of Gerona (disambiguation)

An editor has requested that Siege of Gerona (disambiguation) be moved to another page, which may be of interest to this WikiProject. You are invited to participate in the move discussion.